Curse

Adaria · May 29, 2005, 06:55 AM // 06:55

In these late hours of the night, or early of the morning, in tiredness and rest deprived semi-insanity I ask it of you, the community one thing.

Please, what do we gain from this never ending argument? You all know of which one I refer and thus it not need be mentioned.

What is gained but a wider gap in the fragile community of these forums?

Our voices are heard, of this I am most certain, even if it is only seen in random announcements and recent updates.

Must this feud continue? I feel as though if it does, it will cause a rift that can not be replaced too easily. I fear this may become a personal slander on one another, and we must all remember, this is merely over a game, something that is supposed to bring us enjoyment, not this constant fighting, discontent and annoyance.

So please, please, can't this cease for a time? This Never Ending argument that has caused much stress, from what I have seen, across parts of these boards?

Can a time where this is not fought over fall for a time so we might be able to look at other things than this constantly brought back fight?

Think about it...

Lazarous · May 29, 2005, 07:20 AM // 07:20

To answer your question:
Catharsis.

Helps burn the vitriol this game's changes engendered without taking it out on anyone you care about.

As to the rift you worry about, it exists. Has existed forever, its only been brought into sharp relief by what a.net did in changing the game at release.

Edit: You want the argument to cease? Don't participate in it. The only stress you can accurately measure across a message board is your own.

Laz

Lews · May 29, 2005, 07:46 AM // 07:46

Whats the topic? =(

Draken · May 29, 2005, 08:07 AM // 08:07

No one answer him its better if he doesnt know. Ignorance is such sweet bliss especialy in this case.

Partially kidding look around im going to stay with the theme of this post and not say though.

Aaaaagh · May 29, 2005, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Its only a game. Hit the button with the green light on your computer and it all goes away...

Not to say I dont understand and even empathize with you, but dont let it wear you down.

Bamelin · May 29, 2005, 10:11 AM // 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarous

To answer your question:
Catharsis.

Helps burn the vitriol this game's changes engendered without taking it out on anyone you care about.

As to the rift you worry about, it exists. Has existed forever, its only been brought into sharp relief by what a.net did in changing the game at release.

Edit: You want the argument to cease? Don't participate in it. The only stress you can accurately measure across a message board is your own.

Laz

Laz is right ...

The irony of it all is that the devs "had it right" in the BWE's. They had found the perfect balance between PvE and PvP gameplay ... sure the game had some small problems but on the whole most people PvE or PvP were happy with the system ...

Then in retail the devs brought in a sledgehammer and broke the balance tilting the game heavily in favour of the PvE camp.

Is it any suprise the PvP people are screaming bloody murder?

Aiwahead · May 29, 2005, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bamelin

Laz is right ...

The irony of it all is that the devs "had it right" in the BWE's. They had found the perfect balance between PvE and PvP gameplay ... sure the game had some small problems but on the whole most people PvE or PvP were happy with the system ...

Then in retail the devs brought in a sledgehammer and broke the balance tilting the game heavily in favour of the PvE camp.

Is it any suprise the PvP people are screaming bloody murder?

Board mods just need to put an end to the posts, as I've said before. Close them when they're opened. And if they really want to end the discussion, the best way IMO is to simply put up a moderated poll. Vote and leave. No discussion, no flaming. Just pure results. So both sides will STFU. This is getting to be as bad as steampowered forums.

On a final note: I really want to know.

What part of "ONLY FOR THE BWEs" Did you people honestly not understand? They said this. They warned you. You didnt listen.

You have no ****ing patience? Go go gadget ritalin dosage.

Adaria · May 29, 2005, 04:10 PM // 16:10

I know this has been beat to death and I agree with it that is the only reason why I've made this topic as it is... More a plea for it to stop for awhile and give everyone a break from it...

Note, after sleep I feel like someone run me down with a car, but better than I did last night, yay, no more exhaustion and exasperation.

I awoke this morning to more topics on this unspoken subject, I have to sigh at one in particular, I'm sure it is clear why...

ANYWAY, I am sorry if I have just added to the problem more than helping, I do NOT intend this to turn into another one, merely wanting to ask people if they could give this a rest for all of our sakes.

AirOnG · May 29, 2005, 04:42 PM // 16:42

It is a controversial and often repeated topic because many people are frustrated with how they were misled with the advertisement and how they thought the game was going to be a break from the typical mmorpg mold of required grind for pvp.

I realize that a lot of the bickering is pointless mostly to many who already like the game as it is, but I think the constant discussion is important to show that a large part of the community actually wants change. Just closing threads does not promote discussion in any way and will alienate people further from the game.

Like Laz said, this discussion is not causing a rift. That rift has already existed.

Mimu · May 29, 2005, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Well then, at least keep them to one topic so we know what to avoid.

Synncial77 · May 29, 2005, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Isn't it possible, for those who don't like this subject, to just not read the threads. For myself, if there's a topic I don't like the sound of I simply don't read it.

Also, as a temporary solution, you could make a seperate catagory in the forums for this topic alone. Then, this whole battle can take place in it's own little corner of the forum and it'll also serve as a place to move these threads without deleting them.

Deleting them isn't really a good option because if there are no threads that talk about this subject then people will feel even more compelled to make new posts since "no one else has mentioned it".

Lazarous · May 29, 2005, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

What part of "ONLY FOR THE BWEs" Did you people honestly not understand? They said this. They warned you. You didnt listen.

This has been said 10 billion times, but sure, whats another repetition:a.net nerfed the **** out of skill traders, made elites capture only and has now twice nerfed decent rune farm locations, all of which increase grind to the point of game breaking to pvp oriented people. They did not say any of these things were 'bwe only'. The UAS argument is really secondary to this and is more of a reaction to the rape the skill system/runes got.

Laz

Loviatar · May 29, 2005, 05:20 PM // 17:20

correct me if i am wrong but wasnt there an announcement that the UAS was for beta only and would not be in the retail?

i am sure i saw that notice

AirOnG · May 29, 2005, 05:21 PM // 17:21

There's very misleading advertisement. Many who bought the game probably did not even know a UAS existed in the beta and bought based on word of mouth and what the game advertisement implied.

Adaria · May 29, 2005, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Thank you VERY much Air for just having to say the word I never wanted mentioned in this thread...

Thank you for defeating whatever purpose or intent I had in this...

This was never meant to turn into another one of THOSE topics, so Moderators I please ask you delete this thread, it doesn't need to turn into yet another argument.

eventhorizen · May 29, 2005, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarous

This has been said 10 billion times, but sure, whats another repetition:a.net nerfed the **** out of skill traders, made elites capture only and has now twice nerfed decent rune farm locations, all of which increase grind to the point of game breaking to pvp oriented people. They did not say any of these things were 'bwe only'. The UAS argument is really secondary to this and is more of a reaction to the rape the skill system/runes got.

Laz

So the game has a small quantity of difficult to obtain skills, skills are spread throughout the game, and there is randomly changing drop locations for the highest end equipment.

This is a game breaker for the PvP oriented is it?

Zorlag · May 29, 2005, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by eventhorizen

So the game has a small quantity of difficult to obtain skills, skills are spread throughout the game, and there is randomly changing drop locations for the highest end equipment.

This is a game breaker for the PvP oriented is it?

Maybe best way to look at it is that PvE players look at various equipment/skills you can get as rewards/prices for their dedication, whereas PvP players looks at them as tools of the trade. It's hard to compete with others if their toolset is more powerful or flexible so they are forced to partake in farming activities against their will. It remains to be seen if this is a game-breaker, but it is a serious bone of contention. I'm getting bored myself as I'm running my second character through PvE campaign to get 4 classes mostly unlocked (and that elusive superior vigor rune).

Aiwahead · May 29, 2005, 07:19 PM // 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lazarous

This has been said 10 billion times, but sure, whats another repetition:a.net nerfed the **** out of skill traders, made elites capture only and has now twice nerfed decent rune farm locations, all of which increase grind to the point of game breaking to pvp oriented people. They did not say any of these things were 'bwe only'. The UAS argument is really secondary to this and is more of a reaction to the rape the skill system/runes got.

Laz

How is the UAS argument secondary to the rune/farm rape? Honestly, Laz, I understand and agree with you that YES, they were raped. However, A.net seems to be upgrading these same things by adding in more bosses, and I would suspect drop rates are being upped as, of late, I've found several more majors per farm run. [Though I seem to have crappy luck and they always seem to be the same ones I already have. Again, this may not be luck indeed, as i've started to see majors and even superiors going for <15k in the past few days.]

As far as that goes, I could really not give less of a care. Yes, I dont like it either, but if you are not going to give them time to correct what was obviously an oversight, fine. You have no patience. Go go gadget ritalin dosage, once again. [Side note: "You" dosent refer specifically to you, laz, or any one person for that matter. Making sure it is obvious I am NOT trolling. ]

When it comes to the UAS option, which is what the greater majority of these posts start about, and what I posted about: Stupidity for the win. There was never a garuntee about it.

Lazarous · May 29, 2005, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Quote:

How is the UAS argument secondary to the rune/farm rape? Honestly, Laz, I understand and agree with you that YES, they were raped. However, A.net seems to be upgrading these same things by adding in more bosses, and I would suspect drop rates are being upped as, of late, I've found several more majors per farm run.

Its secondary at least in my case because since a.net moved the grind past the point of tolerance, i'm challenging the assumptions inherent with it being required in a game of this type. If they kept the grind within my level of tolerance i probably would've grumbled but not much more.

As to the responses a.net has taken - i point out that the farm location nerfs happened *after* release. A global increase on rare spawns doesn't offset this in the slightest because unless that global increase is massive its a drop in the bucket, you'll have to go out and kill and kill and kill forever and pray the random numbers like you that day. Their responses - save for the last possible update, have all been to make it more grind to enter pvp, not less. This is not an 'oversight'. Its a deliberate design and balance decision. My patience with that trend is what is exhausted.

Synncial77 · May 29, 2005, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Ok guys, this thread is NOT meant to be used to talk about the "subject" that everyone is getting sick of. Please stop it now and move your debate about this "subject" to one of the many threads already dedicated to this. Seriously, I have strong feeligs about this "subject" too but it clearly wasn't the intent of this thread to continue talking about it here.